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	<title>Comments on: March Route &#8211; Psychedelic Robot Ride rolls to Oakridge!</title>
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	<link>http://www.sjbikeparty.org/archives/121</link>
	<description>Building community through bicycling</description>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.sjbikeparty.org/archives/121/comment-page-1#comment-36</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Mar 2009 22:10:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sjbikeparty.org/?p=121#comment-36</guid>
		<description>Well, Ben and Chris certainly raise interesting points, but this forum shouldn&#039;t be devoted to car drivers&#039; rants, so if this turns into a flame war, we&#039;ll start removing the comments.  

A couple of quick points:  cars don&#039;t have any &quot;right&quot; to the road, nor do bikes.  It&#039;s a privilege, shared equally.  Except that it&#039;s not - 99% of the time on 99% of the roads, cars and car-centric design push bicyclists into dangerous and inconvenient use patterns.  That would sound almost like tit for tat - i.e. cars are dangerous to bikes most of the time, so once a month bikes can be dangerous to cars - but actually even the situation described here (Ben and Chris inconvenienced by the Bike Party ride) didn&#039;t cause significant danger, so it&#039;s not comparable.  It is traffic, and sometimes you get stuck in a jam.  Usually people who don&#039;t want to get stuck in a jam stay off the roads, so there&#039;s fair warning:  if you don&#039;t like waiting for bikes in your car, stay home on the 3rd Friday of every month.  Lord knows I generally stay off the roads during rush hour for similar reasons in reverse.  

Oh, and I like the line &quot;Most critical mass events try to share the road.&quot;  That&#039;s pretty much exactly false, which is one of several things that makes Bike Party NOT a Critical Mass ride.  We try to stick to one lane whenever possible and let cars out of the ride.  Key word is try:  doing anything with 500 people is tricky, so it&#039;s bound to be imperfect, but if we can all be civil about it we should be able to get by.  

So yeah, enough of that, thanks for the comments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, Ben and Chris certainly raise interesting points, but this forum shouldn&#8217;t be devoted to car drivers&#8217; rants, so if this turns into a flame war, we&#8217;ll start removing the comments.  </p>
<p>A couple of quick points:  cars don&#8217;t have any &#8220;right&#8221; to the road, nor do bikes.  It&#8217;s a privilege, shared equally.  Except that it&#8217;s not &#8211; 99% of the time on 99% of the roads, cars and car-centric design push bicyclists into dangerous and inconvenient use patterns.  That would sound almost like tit for tat &#8211; i.e. cars are dangerous to bikes most of the time, so once a month bikes can be dangerous to cars &#8211; but actually even the situation described here (Ben and Chris inconvenienced by the Bike Party ride) didn&#8217;t cause significant danger, so it&#8217;s not comparable.  It is traffic, and sometimes you get stuck in a jam.  Usually people who don&#8217;t want to get stuck in a jam stay off the roads, so there&#8217;s fair warning:  if you don&#8217;t like waiting for bikes in your car, stay home on the 3rd Friday of every month.  Lord knows I generally stay off the roads during rush hour for similar reasons in reverse.  </p>
<p>Oh, and I like the line &#8220;Most critical mass events try to share the road.&#8221;  That&#8217;s pretty much exactly false, which is one of several things that makes Bike Party NOT a Critical Mass ride.  We try to stick to one lane whenever possible and let cars out of the ride.  Key word is try:  doing anything with 500 people is tricky, so it&#8217;s bound to be imperfect, but if we can all be civil about it we should be able to get by.  </p>
<p>So yeah, enough of that, thanks for the comments.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.sjbikeparty.org/archives/121/comment-page-1#comment-34</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Mar 2009 21:51:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sjbikeparty.org/?p=121#comment-34</guid>
		<description>I have to agree with Ben.  Last night I was seriously annoyed when my rights of the road were usurped by what was essentially a party on wheels.  The rights of 500 do not outweigh the rights of 1.  I have just as much right to the road as that guy with the couch on wheels.

The bikers were not interested in asserting their right of way more than they were making a statement by infringing on the rights and conveniences of others.  Both lanes of Lincoln were taken up for more than 10 minutes.  Most critical mass events try to share the road.  This was about taking over the road.  No consideration for other people.  It was all about your party and what you guys wanted to do.

I made a formal complaint to the city of San Jose and the police department.  You need a permit to block a road plain and simple.  I will also send an email to Council Olivierro&#039;s office.

This event was anything but friendly.  When I tried to use the left lane while the bikers took over the road was insulted and taunted.  Friendly, hardly.  

I have no problem with an organized bicycle ride.  In fact I enjoy riding a bicycle often myself.  However, I don&#039;t make that other people&#039;s problem.  I wouldn&#039;t have had a problem with the event last night as long as it takes into account the rules of the road and the organizers have consideration for other citizens.  You can&#039;t ride through a red light just because there are 500 of you.  

I think this event is more about getting in peoples faces than promoting bicycle commuting.  What I saw last night was not friendly.

I certainly was not won over to your cause nor would I ever want to participate in any event that carelessly disregards the rights of other people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to agree with Ben.  Last night I was seriously annoyed when my rights of the road were usurped by what was essentially a party on wheels.  The rights of 500 do not outweigh the rights of 1.  I have just as much right to the road as that guy with the couch on wheels.</p>
<p>The bikers were not interested in asserting their right of way more than they were making a statement by infringing on the rights and conveniences of others.  Both lanes of Lincoln were taken up for more than 10 minutes.  Most critical mass events try to share the road.  This was about taking over the road.  No consideration for other people.  It was all about your party and what you guys wanted to do.</p>
<p>I made a formal complaint to the city of San Jose and the police department.  You need a permit to block a road plain and simple.  I will also send an email to Council Olivierro&#8217;s office.</p>
<p>This event was anything but friendly.  When I tried to use the left lane while the bikers took over the road was insulted and taunted.  Friendly, hardly.  </p>
<p>I have no problem with an organized bicycle ride.  In fact I enjoy riding a bicycle often myself.  However, I don&#8217;t make that other people&#8217;s problem.  I wouldn&#8217;t have had a problem with the event last night as long as it takes into account the rules of the road and the organizers have consideration for other citizens.  You can&#8217;t ride through a red light just because there are 500 of you.  </p>
<p>I think this event is more about getting in peoples faces than promoting bicycle commuting.  What I saw last night was not friendly.</p>
<p>I certainly was not won over to your cause nor would I ever want to participate in any event that carelessly disregards the rights of other people.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://www.sjbikeparty.org/archives/121/comment-page-1#comment-33</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Mar 2009 20:40:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sjbikeparty.org/?p=121#comment-33</guid>
		<description>Admin,
It&#039;s not worth much actually, since those situations are entirely different.  

What you guys were doing was deliberate and unnecessary.  A traffic jam on the freeway is a product of necessity.

In addition, you guys were not simply causing traffic.  Had it been a long line of bikers waiting their turn amongst the rest of us there would be no problem.

However, as it was, you were essentially blocking the intersection and cutting in line.  You were not coexisting.  Instead you were selfishly prohibiting other people from going about their lives.

Your About Us page says &quot;A bicycle is freedom, a bicycle is friendly, and a bicycle is life.&quot;  I guess that statement only applies to people who are actually on the bikes, and not the way they treat those around them.  Last night you denied me my freedom to move my car when I wanted by ignoring the rules of the rode and the rules of human decency.  That doesn&#039;t seem very friendly to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Admin,<br />
It&#8217;s not worth much actually, since those situations are entirely different.  </p>
<p>What you guys were doing was deliberate and unnecessary.  A traffic jam on the freeway is a product of necessity.</p>
<p>In addition, you guys were not simply causing traffic.  Had it been a long line of bikers waiting their turn amongst the rest of us there would be no problem.</p>
<p>However, as it was, you were essentially blocking the intersection and cutting in line.  You were not coexisting.  Instead you were selfishly prohibiting other people from going about their lives.</p>
<p>Your About Us page says &#8220;A bicycle is freedom, a bicycle is friendly, and a bicycle is life.&#8221;  I guess that statement only applies to people who are actually on the bikes, and not the way they treat those around them.  Last night you denied me my freedom to move my car when I wanted by ignoring the rules of the rode and the rules of human decency.  That doesn&#8217;t seem very friendly to me.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.sjbikeparty.org/archives/121/comment-page-1#comment-32</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Mar 2009 18:17:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sjbikeparty.org/?p=121#comment-32</guid>
		<description>I usually bring a digi camera, but forgot it at home for this ride. Any links to pictures are much appreciated!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I usually bring a digi camera, but forgot it at home for this ride. Any links to pictures are much appreciated!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://www.sjbikeparty.org/archives/121/comment-page-1#comment-29</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Mar 2009 08:48:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sjbikeparty.org/?p=121#comment-29</guid>
		<description>For what it&#039;s worth, anyone who&#039;s ever sat in a car on I-280 during rush hour has probably waited far more than 10 minutes for a line of cars.  Traffic jams are traffic jams, and it generally sucks for everyone.  At least you didn&#039;t have to suck fumes the whole time?  
Oh, Bike Party&#039;s purpose is mostly, if not totally clear, on the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.sjbikeparty.org/about&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;About Us&lt;/a&gt; page.  Look for a more detailed FAQ page soon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For what it&#8217;s worth, anyone who&#8217;s ever sat in a car on I-280 during rush hour has probably waited far more than 10 minutes for a line of cars.  Traffic jams are traffic jams, and it generally sucks for everyone.  At least you didn&#8217;t have to suck fumes the whole time?<br />
Oh, Bike Party&#8217;s purpose is mostly, if not totally clear, on the <a href="http://www.sjbikeparty.org/about" rel="nofollow">About Us</a> page.  Look for a more detailed FAQ page soon.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://www.sjbikeparty.org/archives/121/comment-page-1#comment-28</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Mar 2009 08:36:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sjbikeparty.org/?p=121#comment-28</guid>
		<description>I get it.  You like to ride your bikes.  I like to ride mine too.

However, I would just like to make a suggestion.

I was at Oakridge tonight, trying to leave the parking garage in my car and go home after a movie.  

I waited in the intersection at the exit to the garage for 10 minutes, with my blinker on, while you people rudely road your bikes all around me and the other cars that were trying to do the same thing, prohibiting us from moving.  

Could you not have paused your antics long enough to show a little decency and consideration and let use move and get out of your way?  

One of you was even out there directing riders.  He saw me waving at him to let us through and did nothing but continue to motion you around me.

Eventually I saw a small break in the procession and had to gradually drive my car through the river of bikers, make you all wait for me instead.

I&#039;m not sure if your group has some sort of underlying purpose, or some point to make, or if you&#039;re just out to goof off and have a good time.  The point is that when you pull stuff like that you give bike riders a really bad name.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I get it.  You like to ride your bikes.  I like to ride mine too.</p>
<p>However, I would just like to make a suggestion.</p>
<p>I was at Oakridge tonight, trying to leave the parking garage in my car and go home after a movie.  </p>
<p>I waited in the intersection at the exit to the garage for 10 minutes, with my blinker on, while you people rudely road your bikes all around me and the other cars that were trying to do the same thing, prohibiting us from moving.  </p>
<p>Could you not have paused your antics long enough to show a little decency and consideration and let use move and get out of your way?  </p>
<p>One of you was even out there directing riders.  He saw me waving at him to let us through and did nothing but continue to motion you around me.</p>
<p>Eventually I saw a small break in the procession and had to gradually drive my car through the river of bikers, make you all wait for me instead.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure if your group has some sort of underlying purpose, or some point to make, or if you&#8217;re just out to goof off and have a good time.  The point is that when you pull stuff like that you give bike riders a really bad name.</p>
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